SoulNSense
SoulNSense
India’s adoption awakening
India has close to 31 million orphans. This episode talks of the journey of Dr. Piyush Saxena wanting to transform the hearts of a billion people in India to stand up to their human side for the cause.
Shaalin Tandon and Dr. Piyush Saxena discussing the urgent issue of adoption in India. Dr. Saxena, known for his humility, books, and naturopathy practice, shared his journey from the corporate world to advocating for orphans. Highlighting the disparity between the annual adoption rate and the millions of orphans, they explored societal apprehensions and legal challenges hindering adoption processes. The conversation emphasised the necessity of providing a family for every child and called for societal change to embrace adoption more openly, thereby ensuring every child receives the love and care they deserve.
You can learn more about Dr. Piyush Saxena at http://drpiyushsaxena.com
Watch the video version of this podcast at https://youtu.be/X7WPqwGhMp0
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A huge thank you to our viewers for joining.
us today on the SoulNSense podcast.
I am your host Shaalin Tandon. I’d like to introduce you to Dr. Piyush Saxena
I have known Dr. Piyush Saxena for the last 20 years.
he is a person with a lot of humility
he has written many books, practices naturopathy and is also a magician.
he is a very important person to me that I have worked with
so Welcome Dr. Piyush Saxena to the SoulNSense podcast.
I look forward to having a discussion about “Adoption” today, learning from you about this.
my viewers and I look forward to enjoying a fun filled interaction.
Thank You so much Shaalin
it feels very good to be on this podcast.
and the discussion for today is about some important topics and in our “mind”, “body” and “soul” we often notice a lack of coordination in everyone's life.
and what you have thought of to bridge this gap is indeed service to humankind.
we are going to talk about “ANath”. Anath by definition are orphans who’s biological parents are not in this world.
they don’t have anyone to take care of them.
Our country India, is a welfare state and its the responsibility of a welfare state to take care of orphans. Who does not have a “Nath”; the government acts as their “Nath”.
so we will delve more as to how to increase awareness, understand their problems, understand their pain and recognize our role.
what can we do for those who do not have anyone to look after them.
Piyush uncle, Thank you so much.
let’s begin. The first question in my head is,
Why did you start working on this topic? Aren’t you from the corporate world?
you’ve done so many varied things and why this?
I have noticed your social work but why could not imagine adoption and orphans?
you have decided to start this conversation on a very heart touching topic.
really great
I do Past Life Regression (‘PLR’)
this is a story from 8 years ago when a session was conducted on me
multiple sessions are possible
I have done around 900 sessions with 40 sessions being conducted on me.
some orphans once came for a session
I didn't expect that orphans would come to see.
but they came and spoke to me.
they asked me to do something
I asked them, ‘What do you want from me?”
they said these sessions are different from the problems faced by adoption.
I asked, ‘What can I do about this?’
yhey replied, ‘Even we don't know ‘
I said, ‘Neither do I’
neither you know
neither they know.
then who knows?
they wanted me to at least start
I said okay however this seemed like a big project and I denied their request.
I was deeply hypnotized during the sessions.
they were disheartened after I denied their request. If you don’t start the work then who will?
now from the last 8 years, the journey I've taken.
believe me Shaalin if I had know , I would have never attended to this issue.
but I am happy now that I did the right thing.
the remarkable thing is yesterday all those kids came and were very thankful.
this made me feel like my efforts bore fruit.
they said if you keep going forward the road will open
and as we speak a lot of things are moving ahead
Piyush uncle, there is something that sticks to my heart and there such as some statistics
which are very serious.
In this country 7000 approximate adoptions happen annually
still 3 Cr orphans exist.
I don't understand this number….
How can this happen ?? in a country where family has so much priority.
love, care, affection, such a strong welfare and govt system
and even after so many years our adoption numbers are dropping
Even though thousands and even lakhs of people exist without children.
What is happening in this country?
I’ll talk about statistics: Firstly Unicef reported 4-5 years ago, Newspapers have been reporting for 10 years that these numbers are genuinely high.
I don’t go by unauthenticated statistics.
The Parliamentary Committee on adoption and guardianship laws on 08 August 2022 in the Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha presented a report.
In this they mentioned 31 million orphans or 3.10 Cr.
from an estimated population of 140 Cr about 3.10 Cr are orphans.
adoption figures are collected by the ministry of woman and child development on their website
mostly reported as 4000, 4500, 3500. It has stayed in this range for the last 10 years
actually it is continuously declining
but that is not my aim.
I'm not referring to 3000-4000 adoptions it should ideally be around 50 lakh to 1 Cr adoptions.
Yes, a diplomatic newspaper once covered that there are 2.75 Cr infertile couples who do not have children.
what a coincidence of the universe that the numbers are similar.
around 2.75 Cr not having a child
I feel like
the universe is sending a message for something to happen
these souls are born into this country and they equally have a right.
they should also get the same respect and love as anyone else.
as far as I can tell and would like to say. Whenever a child, is born the love & strength provided by the father via words that say ‘Mein Hoon’ ( Don’t worry, I am here)
or perhaps the love and affection given by the mother who cares for the child is important.
the orphans have no such assurances
How can this happen in this country?
this topic struck me when recently I read in the newspaper that you are addressing this issue in the Supreme Court and bringing facts forward.
In this country what happens will happen. The Supreme Court will support and provide necessary directions.
but what kind of a situation occurred that caused you to go to the Supreme Court ?
and even though there’s so much talk about love in our country why have we not spared a thought for these children and souls?
see I’ve told you how i got involved in this, and after that what was our remedy?
we contacted the ministry. Wrote emails and obtained appointments.
one by one I had a total of 9 meetings with the concerned officials.
with every meeting I felt like I am understanding the problems and what could be the solution.
the ministry also confirmed that they will help in finding a solution .
a lot of time passed with no results in sight
then I had 2 options. Constitution of India Article 32 and 226 have remedies for WRIT
either in the Supreme Court or High Court.
Yes
for some reasons i chose the Supreme Court and filed a petition
at the hearing everything was duly heard and necessary directions were given
the ministry is also understanding that yes this can be done in certain ways.
we seem to be working towards a positive solution considering all involved
whether it's the Supreme court, the Ministry, their law officers or CARA authorities
everyone is moving towards a positive solution.
One issue that I want to ask about Piyush uncle is.
“How does adoption take place in India today?”
Because people may not know the truth but even a person like me
requested for an adoption around 5-6 years ago. Till date I still have not had any feedback.
So how does adoption happen in India?
‘What is the process?’
Tell us in simple terms so that people can follow.
Indeed there is a prevalent need.
I’ll tell you
Adoption covers - orphaned, abandoned and surrendered children.
and interestingly the first adoption in the history of time was that of Lord Krishna
Yeah?
Yes see for yourself his parents had left him
you can see
whatever the situation is, he was separated from his biological parents.
we would classify him a surrendered child (in today’s time).
Adoption law has been linked with religion and personal law.
It’s okay.
Muslims, Christians, Jews and Parsi do not adopt.
Okay
and they are governed by their personal laws.
they offer guardianship so that property rights can be provided.
the child stays with them but does not take their last name necessarily
the other one is governed by the guardianship act
which covers Hindu, Sikh, Jain and Buddhist
These are under the 1956 Hindu Adoption and Maintenance Act
Okay
adoption has been going on for very long and was codified in 1956
after that matters proceeded
I agree that in some situations problems have come up.
After this in the Juvenile Justice Act 2015, there was a further definition of adoption as ‘Child Adoption Resource Authority’
CARA
and you registered children wherever they were found, child care institutes became available, child welfare committees exist, state adoption authorities are available
each of the agencies do their own works
importantly when these organizations find children
Where do the babies come from?
They are orphaned in some cases
surrendered in some because the parents have 3,4 or 5 children and cannot financially sustain them thus leave the child and go. Also under abandoned children, unwed mothers leave children. All of these children go to institutes where they first get a medical checkup and then legally they are declared free for adoption
after that if they qualify in the parameters registered parents are invited for adoption
but all these processes are not functioning in their best capacity
we could have spread happiness in many more households waiting for children.
In my opinion, The JJ Act Section 56,1 the orphans are accorded a “right to family”.
this is the most important aspect
Everyone has a right to a family.
I’m trying to say that we must provide orphans the right to a family too.
It becomes all of our responsibility that we do something about this
and always remember one thing Shaalin, any time.
an orphan does not have employment news or Whatsapp (awareness),
they don’t know what's happening around them
I’m talking about the ground realty.
I used to go to an orphanage and still do go
they did not now that the restaurant next door to them is in need of servers
and you think and tell me what resource do they have to become aware ?
They are very honest, sincere, dedicated, they will do the work as asked from them.
But they don’t know where are the opportunities are?
In fact this makes me think of a very important question.
‘Have’ or ‘Have Nots’ -meaning these children who are orphans
children with parents perhaps don’t realise,
the protection by having a father and mother
they have education, food, water and home
and there is an effort by someone to take care of them
If we look at how much our children get today vs
the orphans don't have anything
The feeling of love and blessings by anyone is also not known to them.
How would they react to something they never had ?
Sometimes, Piyush uncle I feel the love these kids have not even experienced such feelings. How will they grow without it?
I want to talk about a couple of things and focus on that we often do when going to meet them
I have gone many times
Have you ever thought about what their heart feels when we go to meet them?
It is interesting to know.
When we go, instinctively we give them Rs. 1000-2000
It is natural to spare some money and give it to them.
I have noticed that they are not too happy with it.
Obviously, they are happy about getting money but
their true happiness lies is when we sit with them on the floor to share a meal,
they feel a sense of belonging with you
when we talk about Soul
most often they think of us as rich people with money who have come to sympathise
I have noticed sharing a meal with them on the floor, the emotions are very different
I’ll tell you another fact
In an orphanage there are usually between 15--30 children.
whenever someone comes to meet them
every child gets only one thought
“maybe they will adopt me ?”
This is a very heavy feeling.
The children probably get goosebumps
Exactly. Perhaps someone will like us and take us with them
unfortunately some arrangements are causing less adoptions
I'll share another real life experience
When I was studying about guardianship and adoption I met a number of Mawlawis and Kazis and went to their orphange centers?
engaged in a lot of meetings to understand what is the reality, what is the truth
everything seemed normal
but when I went to a priest in Andheri East (Mumbai) and asked
Father what is the reason for people not going for adoptions and just taking guardianships?
Even before I started my conversation
He said wait for a minute
got up shut the door and switched on the red light
Why?
ohhhhh
even I didn’t understand
because he wanted a confidential conversation
even I didn't understand, I said “Father Why?”
I had met him multiple times before
Father said when the talk of an adoption comes up all the children get a hope
I want to share this with your viewers Shaalin
that adoption isn’t a small act.
It changes the child’s life
and changes the life of the adopting parent
all their lives will never be the same
If I consider the mother and father as 2 and the child as 1
The home becomes a happier place.
everything changes
and whoever has adopted knows the difference between the before and after
This can give anyone goosebumps
sometimes i think what these kids may be going through in their heads
Years pass and they’ve spent formative years in an orphanage
What can we do about this?
Piyush uncle there must be something we can do?
today Shaalin is asking me what goes through their mind
every year I regularly go to 10-15 orphanages disguised as Santa Claus.
and about 3 years ago I reached an orphanage and was stratelled
after completing a Santa Claus performance and completing the customary singing of ‘Jingle Bells”
right after that
Oh yes i had forgotten you’re a magician as well
Yes I do magic shows as well.
So after that a little child came to me and said
“Uncle, I thought Santa Claus only visits the house of the rich.”
Now imagine. What could I have thought? What answer should I give to this child?
But the real pleasure is spending time with these children
because they reciprocate love
they warmly reciprocate back to you
Piyush Uncle, In this country where so much changed in the past years,
people's lives have changed, people's thinking and outlook has changed,
we must to do something, we have to find a solution
Is there anything we can do together? There must be something?
Adoption rate is really low
we are all making our own efforts to support and support is also coming from appropriate places.
Adoption rate is low because there is some type of apprehension
The Government has an apprehension that these children may be utilized for the wrong purposes.
I’ll list out what possible wrong actions may occur:
child labour
bonded labour
begging
prostitution, etc
These things happen
that is absolutely correct
The government has a job to protect these kids
I say that wherever they are being misused the culprit should be hanged
but I will say one more thing… How can we stop all the processes because of this fear?
I will give you an example
in our country vehicles, drivers and roads aren't perfect
but we permit transport
accidents happen but life keeps going on right?
Our effort should be to reduce accidents not stop the traffic
here we’ve stopped the traffic here.
I will give you many examples
When 25 years ago international credit cards where being issued
The fear was that we would see a flight of capital
Initially cards were valid only in India and Nepal
Finally we were notified that all cards are valid across the globe
minimal frauds occurred anywhere
you would have been very young then.
In earlier times certificate needed attestation from a Gazette Officer
the process was quite a hassle however today you can self-attest
Piyush Uncle you once told me a very interesting story. I remember to this day
I quote it many times as well
trust
human trust
Once you gave me a very good example that
when we are at the airport and collect our baggage, many people can take your bag and leave.
Maybe.
However it doesn't really happen
doesn't happen
thus we have implicit trust that’s within us
there was a time when we used to check the labels to verify bags
Now there's nothing of that sort. Take your own belongings and go. There’s no worry. This
confirms that humans are generally not bad or thieves
Absolutely not. Just allow the trust and see
just trust and see
no i completely understand that this is a very important point
and I would like our audiences that could possibly have another 50 ideas
for what can work
one should visit orphanages
maybe they will have a solution
maybe there will be a way out
and in my mind the one thing i feel the most is , that these are beautiful souls who are born in our country.
they were born to contribute something
but perhaps we haven't been able to find that purpose yet
yes and they play their role when the time is right
for adoption I have told you about the process of CARA
Yes
The CARA adoption fits into the JJ Act
The other adoption option which is a simple process is the Hindu Adoption Maintenance Act 1956
which at the moment is a slow process regarding my arguments are ongoing for more clarification.
according to the Hindu Adoption Maintenance Act 1956
If both are Hindus
as I mentioned with the Hindus, Sikh, Jain and Buddhist then this becomes a very simple deed of adoption
the process is slow and my conversation are ongoing
now my efforts will be to make this registration work in the same way as the registration for birth and death certificates
As simple as that?
That is my target at least.
and the act provides for this
the intent is there
I feel that from somewhere or another a way will come out
I would want that as soon as possible people in this country understand the importance of this point
we have to find a life for these children
people like you who are involved in this cause to support
maybe very soon we'll have a time when we don't have so many orphans in our country
Shaalin I don't have a choice
when i think about my PLR since 8 years ago I think we should not stop
Thank you Piyush uncle I think our conversation has become an eye opener
This was a very emotional topic
I have a lot of attachment for kids
and the way you have picked this topic
I would want that many more people join you
everyone can contribute in their own way
Its not necessary that your way is the only right one
Others may have different solutions
And this country has a lot of love for kids and we are family oriented
And I hope that no things happen to hurt the chances of kids getting a home
Thank you Piyush uncle
For coming on this show and educating us and showing us how to think about this
I felt really great too
Through SoulNSense i will try to make more people understand this topic
Maybe this journey is going to change, it can change the adoptions in the country.
One more topic comes up Shaalin
Why do people avoid adoptions
Some families are particular
Adoption can be viewed in some income categories differently
upper middle class, middle class, lower middle class
People who live in villages and suburban areas still tend to feel like adoption is not the right choice
They are okay with not adopting
They are fine with no children
The reason for this is they don’t know who’s blood line are they adopting
The other issue is: This is the ground realty
If one sibling has kids and the other doesn't
they feel like the one with kids will get the property
If the adoption doesn't happen
They suggest against adoption as they feel like they’ll lose some of their share in property in the process
this is a ground reality as well
this thinking has to change It will change
according to me in the next generation these things won't be as important
I would like for the country to think about this
by not believing in these things.
we need to focus on the things we have to do be smart and do things right for the kids
there's one more notification from 2021 from the ministry of home affairs
they have clarified that PIO’s (Persons of Indian Origin/ Foreign Nationals)
if they have an OCI for the process of adoption they will be treated at par with NRI
This means that children can be adopted easily and they do it in accordance with the Hindu Adoption Maintenance Act.
this can go in the act
Piyush Uncle, are there any more things in your mind?
that make people think against adoption
There must be some reason
yes this comes up in the on ground reality
suppose there are 4 brothers and 3 of them have children and one doesn't have
when he starts talking about adoption
there are whispers that start in the house
that if they adopt children
It will be difficult to divide the property
let things go how they are we’ll get what is there
this is how people are discouraged
It is unfortunate but true
the other thing they tell you. You’re doing adoptions, Where are you getting them from
Since there are many unanswered questions a biased person’s opinion comes and overrules the decision. brother or sister’s.
If it’s possible people go ahead with it
but often this isn't possible
so there is definitely something they want to hide?
there is something they want to hide from the world
there is something they don't want to say
that's why they don't come up for adoption
There are some shortcomings
They don't come out publicly. The Society isn't that accepting for adoption
This is a problem. A problem in our country
Even though we live in such a populated country with so much love this is a genuine issue
And I’d want our listeners to ponder and pay attention to adoption as a normal proceeding and not an exception
Talk to families that think like this and explain to them that the country has changed, Humanity has changed.
Many things have changed, many things are changing
Many things are still evolving
We’d like for as many kids to be adopted
And number of orphans go down because the country is changing
And we’d all want to contribute to this
Thank you Piyush Uncle
Your welcome
I had fun this felt great
I also had lots of fun
Maybe our viewers learnt something that they didn't know yet
Thank you